tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12158536.post1687828269664991819..comments2024-03-17T03:17:43.229-04:00Comments on David Anthony Durham: On Being a "Color Blind" Reader...David Anthony Durhamhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13885922955551669016noreply@blogger.comBlogger53125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12158536.post-6018732359889789672016-01-03T20:44:56.298-05:002016-01-03T20:44:56.298-05:00Very interesting!I didn't know about the black...Very interesting!I didn't know about the black american section... So many unfair dificulties for black writers!<br /><br />Have you ever read Machado de Assis? He was the greatest brazilian writer, and was half black/white. Just a suggestion...<br />: )Luísa L. Motahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03710823143519878402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12158536.post-54165911821342836442016-01-03T20:44:51.813-05:002016-01-03T20:44:51.813-05:00Very interesting!I didn't know about the black...Very interesting!I didn't know about the black american section... So many unfair dificulties for black writers!<br /><br />Have you ever read Machado de Assis? He was the greatest brazilian writer, and was half black/white. Just a suggestion...<br />: )Luísa L. Motahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03710823143519878402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12158536.post-37459620868088434742016-01-03T20:42:48.380-05:002016-01-03T20:42:48.380-05:00Very interesting!I didn't know about the black...Very interesting!I didn't know about the black american section... So many unfair dificulties for black writers!<br /><br />Have you ever read Machado de Assis? He was the greatest brazilian writer, and was half black/white. Just a suggestion...<br />: )Luísa L. Motahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03710823143519878402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12158536.post-61246093673852666372015-02-08T22:26:39.666-05:002015-02-08T22:26:39.666-05:00I'm not 100% sure of the meaning of 'color...I'm not 100% sure of the meaning of 'colorblind' but I insist that my race be defined as Human and nothing else. Other people may use whatever identifiers they like, I'm cool with that. The system of racial classification, which most people see as some kind of natural law, I can work with, but I absolutely fail to understand the logic behind it. It seems to be a sociopolitical construct designed to chart how alien a given person is to the cultural standard, using a mixed metric of skin color, native language and ethnic origin, while consistently refusing to define those units. For instance, while 'black' and 'white' are considered natural classes, nowhere is there to be found a display showing the various existing human skin colorations and the correct term for each.In fact, the language itself lacks terms for those shades, despite have tens of thousands of other color terms. It seems that when a 'black' person has a skin tone lighter than some 'white' person, the term 'black' shifts to mean an ethnicity. In other cases, persons with any skin tone may be assigned to the 'Hispanic' or 'Latino' race based on their native language. This leaves persons from countries in 'Latin America' who speak English, Portuguese or other languages in racial limbo - or perhaps not, as the category was clearly added to exclude persons from the Americas outside of the USA and Canada from being 'white'. In some situations, the word 'Caucasian' is used, but rather than referring to natives of the Caucus Mountains, it appears to be a synonym for 'white' based on a theory discredited a century ago. These are just the tip of the iceberg - race theory seems to be deliberately confounded and irrational.<br /><br />So, yeah, I'll call you by whatever term you like. You can be African-American, or Nihonjin Nisei, or Chicano or whatnot. Feel free to associate those terms with various cultural artifacts produced by like termed people - Gay Cinema, Women's Lit, Jewish Deli, it's all good....until you try to put those labels on me. Respect is a two way process, and you just have to get used to the idea that in addition to Asian, African-American, White and Hispanic, some people are Human.<br />Mziwmihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17547399883090951220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12158536.post-34544053652407881962011-09-04T07:04:57.572-04:002011-09-04T07:04:57.572-04:00I'm a few years late but better late than neve...I'm a few years late but better late than never... thanks for a very interesting read. I used to feel bad for not being colour blind. I read Margie Orford's Blood Rose not that long ago and speculated the whole time about what colour skin Clare Hart has. Only after reading that the author actually wants to keep you wondering, I stopped feeling kinda guilty about it. And btw I wouldn't have read Margie Orford or any African authors without a certain lit course at uni ;) so thank god for university, even though it will probably not lead to employment in my case...Mehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10659062409127044464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12158536.post-41004522629774400262011-06-28T23:44:49.062-04:002011-06-28T23:44:49.062-04:00When an author's race comes through his or her...When an author's race comes through his or her writing with a sort of "poor persecuted me, can't you tell I'm black" feeling, yes, I can usually tell the author is black.<br /><br />But when I'm reading good fiction, I generally have no clue about the race of the author. For years, I had no idea Andre Norton was female and in the same vein, no idea that Octavia Butler was black. They just wrote good stories!<br /><br />When I see a person of color, I am aware that despite efforts to change I still carry some of my parent's prejudices hardwired into my psyche and that I have to make a conscious effort to not let some of those slide into my interactions.<br /><br />But, on the other hand, my other grandpa thought all Micks were lazy bas***** and all Wogs would cheat you given half a chance. I don't have ANY of those prejudices - common just a generation ago, in fact I couldn't tell you who belonged to those racial profiles unless they spoke with an Irish or Italian accent. In either case, I'd probably fall in love with the accent and the person on the spot, which would have caused grandpa to disown me if he were still alive!<br /><br />Further, my kids have the same attitude toward anyone with darker skin than Northern European anything. They have trouble understanding why anyone would have segregated a school because of skin color. <br /><br />The bookstore seems to be an even easier place to lose any predjudice we might harbor. Even easier with Kindles - the book opens to chapter one and I don't see book jackets or bios or pictures. If the author tells a good story, I will kepp reading the author.<br /><br />Off to search David Anthony Durham - I have a new author and new books to read!alifarrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07265236562427097856noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12158536.post-45730930604486404332007-09-12T15:40:00.000-04:002007-09-12T15:40:00.000-04:00most felonious vocalist,Thank you. It did get some...most felonious vocalist,<BR/><BR/>Thank you. It did get some linky action for a while there. About a week, I figure, and then people moved on to other things... So it goes. Glad to have started a few discussions, though.David Anthony Durhamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13885922955551669016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12158536.post-12353851354217726492007-09-12T02:54:00.000-04:002007-09-12T02:54:00.000-04:00Brilliant post. This should be linked all over the...Brilliant post. This should be linked all over the web. You do a great job of explaining why the "color blind" thinking is so dismissive.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12158536.post-85772243542289484042007-08-22T01:30:00.000-04:002007-08-22T01:30:00.000-04:00Just an aside - Before reading and most confusedly...Just an aside - <BR/><BR/>Before reading and most confusedly responding to this post (an my own blog...no plug intended), I had never heard of Mr. Durham or his books. It is an oversight which I am most anxiuos to remediate. In fact, I am currently waiting for <I>Acacia</I> to arrive. I will be posting my honest opinion of it after I read it, but I am rather excited to be reading it.<BR/><BR/>Three things I would add to the comments already made-<BR/><BR/>1) As an ignorant member of the race from the Caucuses, I believe that the term "color-blind" is a knee-jerk reaction to the fear of being thought racist. By that I mean that its easier not to think about and respond in a neutral, acceptable way than think through. Hopefully, most of us grow out of it.<BR/><BR/>2) Race is irrelevant to the story. Let me say that again and broaden it somewhat: Race, age, gender, nationality and.or sexual prefereance are irrelevant to the story. The are irremovable from the story teller and must, therefore, flavor the writing. But great stories aren't great racially, they are great humanly. Good writers use that which is human to nurture an image in the minds of the readers and, while race can be a vehicle used to nurtire those images, it cannot be all the story. If the book is only understandable from a certain perspective, then it can only nurture those images in persons that completely understand that perspective. *snore* Good writers reach across these lines to express that which is human, regardless of race, gender, etc. The author must use his experiences and imagination to find the ways to engender these images, but he must rely on the humanity of the reader to have these images come alive in the minds on those readers. Otherwise, we have a textbook, not a story.<BR/><BR/>3)Having said all that, I wish to address a seperate issue. Racism exists, Its quite an institution in America (and being American, I must limit myself to that which I know), Next time you read a newspaper and the candidate for the State representative is described as "a Black Republican", see if they describe his opponent as "a White Democrat". My bet is they don't and most people never even think about that being racist. Why is race relative to either candidate's ability to adequately serve their constituency? Answer: Its not, but it sells newspapers. Isn't that sad? And so limiting. We become so busy seeing race that we lose sight of the man or woman. We chance the ability to get the best person for the job because race is a factor. <BR/><BR/>Let me further explain that I see race. An Asian IS Asian. And that brings a certain set of cultural divergance from me with it. But, in America, cultural differences have been the name of the game since long before anybody who is reading this had a grandparent who had reached the stage of eye-twinkling in THEIR parents eyes. You think that by now, we'd at least have given it some honest thought and social evaluation.<BR/><BR/>Maybe someday. I have faith in the human animal. We can get past the cultural differences that, while important in understanding where someone comes from, have little or nothing to do with where they are going. Diversity is wonderful, exciting and unavoidable. But individually is how I make my friends. If I limit that list by using some of the imaginary lines I named earlier, just imagine what I have lost. The opportunity cost is too high for me. I need all the friends I can get.<BR/><BR/>Lastly, I am delighted to find out that Mr. Durham is teaching! After our exchaged comments, I can imagine no one better. I hope he finds it rewarding in terms of satisfaction and finance. Good Luck!texasboybluehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13462124020273975347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12158536.post-9096767929983611132007-08-17T20:57:00.000-04:002007-08-17T20:57:00.000-04:00Carl, well, I've spoken with Borders managers abou...Carl, well, I've spoken with Borders managers about it a lot. They do have some divisions. Like Nonfiction wouldn't be mixed with Fiction. But both potentially have a separate space in the store than other Nonfiction and Fiction. <BR/><BR/>When I've asked Borders managers about it - and expressed that I didn't like the black fiction section in particular - they've all said they only do it that way because they've been told black customers like it that way. The argument is that black readers don't want their books mixed in with other books. They want them where they know they can find them.<BR/><BR/>I'm absolutely sure that some people feel this way, but I'd ask them to sacrifice that ease for a greater good.<BR/><BR/>Also, though, I've never been that convinced by this argument. I'm a black person, and I know a lot of black people. I don't know anybody that thinks their reading choices are so limited that they'll only shop for books in one corner of the store.<BR/><BR/>Some may roll their eyes, but I do think there's something of an underlyingly racist attitude about assuming that black readers only want books by black authors AND that they'll only find them if they are sectioned off for them. Are we too lazy to walk the aisle like other readers? (Hypothetical question only. The answer is too obvious to really need answering.)David Anthony Durhamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13885922955551669016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12158536.post-58252764324879836002007-08-17T04:35:00.000-04:002007-08-17T04:35:00.000-04:00Well David, I will now see Borders and Amazon in a...Well David, I will now see Borders and Amazon in a different light. Of course I don't expect the stores in the UK to have a black authors section, when I am in the US though, I will make a point of asking (whilst in a Borders) why, there is a black authors section and ALL the books are a mix between fiction/non-fiction/history/etc... I WONDER WHAT REPLY I WILL GET!!!<BR/><BR/>Maybe someone in these comments or is reading this can do this before me, and post what response they get???Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12158536.post-65461042274802785502007-08-16T17:54:00.000-04:002007-08-16T17:54:00.000-04:00Kevin,I appreciate your comments, and you bet I'm ...Kevin,<BR/><BR/>I appreciate your comments, and you bet I'm learning from the exchanges too. It's helping me to clarify what I think, and also adding to my understanding of what other people think - disagreements included.<BR/><BR/>I agree completely that the subject matter of those early books could seem a bit off-putting, heavy and uncomfortable for mainstream readers. That does tie-in to this whole issue of reading or not reading diversely - in this case focused specifically on African-Americans. If I am going to choose to write a story about African Americans set in the past I'm invariably going to have to deal with the unpleasant realities of race. It's simply always a part of it. Even when black stories set in the past aren't primarily about race - say THEIR EYES WERE WATCHING GOD or THE COLOR PURPLE - our racial problems are still part of the fabric of telling the story.And even if it wasn't always a part of it, many readers will assume that it's a part of it anyway.<BR/><BR/>So, my complaint - if I have one - is that the result of your analysis of what might put people off about WALK THROUGH DARKNESS - knowing that it deals with slavery - essentially means I can't write for a wide audience while still writing about my history. That history HAS to include the very things you point out are off putting. If I can't get past that with readers, my only choice (other than being bitter) is to turn from those stories and find other ones that interest me. Again, this is mostly intended to be an observation.<BR/><BR/>The thing about Amazon not be free from segregation was specifically in answer to John. He felt he was fairly free from the categorization issue because he was online more than in a store. I was just making the point that online stores construct intricate pathways to funnel readers toward titles. All they have to go on is what you've bought before, or what you're looking at. It makes more sense for them to funnel you toward things that are just like what you've already bought. That invariably leads to continuing to push you toward the same sort of thing, instead of different stuff that you might like also.<BR/><BR/>Here's an example... I've just opened Amazon and went to the page for Toni Morrison's SONG OF SOLOMON. In the Customers Who Bought This Also Bought category are these titles...<BR/><BR/>Blueest Eye, by Toni Morrison<BR/>Tar Baby, by Toni Morrison<BR/>Paradise, by Toni Morrison<BR/>Beloved, by Toni Morrison<BR/>The Invisible Man, by Ralph Ellison<BR/><BR/>Okay, so initially that looks like it makes sense. Hey, people that like Toni buy other Toni books. And Ralph Ellison, like Toni, is one of the most revered black literary authors. Makes sense, yes?<BR/><BR/>BUT Amazon's own mechanism seem to suggest that's not a complete picture. Lower down, in the What Did Customers Actually Buy After Viewing Items Like This? category are these titles...<BR/><BR/>Song of Solomon, by Morrison (this is the book page we're on)<BR/>Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, by J. K. Rowling<BR/>A Thousand Splendid Suns, by Khaled Hosseini<BR/>The Road, by Cormac McCarthy<BR/>Middlesex, by Jeffrey Eugenides<BR/><BR/>That's a complete different list! At the top I'm told that people that buy Toni Morrison either by other Toni Morrison or they buy other black authors. A little further down the actual math says that people the buy books like Toni Morrison's actually by British Fantasy, Afghani social novels, post-apocalyptic stories and a literary novel about a Greek-American hermaphrodite. NONE of these titles are by Morrison or other black authors, but at the top the page we'd been directed first to other black authors.<BR/><BR/>Personally, this example is encouraging. I think it's great that Morrison clearly appeals to a certain type of literary (and Potter) reader that's willing to cross all sorts of boundaries. That's wonderful, but in this case that seems to have happened against the machinery of the site that wanted to direct readers of one black author exclusively to other black authors. That seems to back up my belief that Amazon does have Toni Morrison categorized. In a way, she's in the African American section. The online site just doesn't carry that banner at the top of book stack.<BR/><BR/>Somewhere in there is the point that line was making.<BR/><BR/>Paul, Thanks for that. Hey, these issues do snowball one into another pretty easily...<BR/><BR/>Graeme, Interesting to imagine you reading ACACIA after all this talk. I do think my world experiences have shaped me into the person that would write ACACIA, and I do think it's different than much of what's in the genre - although sharing enough traits that it belongs in the genre. There are, of course, no African Americans in the book. (It's a different world, no America..) There's no Jim Crow. No Atlantic Slave trade. No Constitution wherein the worth of slave was determined by a fraction compared to his/her master...<BR/><BR/>So what is there? A world as diverse as ours, but one in which the peculiar history of earth and the paradigms that we live with because of it aren't part of the picture. That's a whole nother topic, really.<BR/><BR/>JD, put simply, I do think that the "color blind" are often "missing out on something", as you put it.David Anthony Durhamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13885922955551669016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12158536.post-71803810021203200072007-08-16T09:49:00.000-04:002007-08-16T09:49:00.000-04:00I've always parsed the phrase "color blind" in the...I've always parsed the phrase "color blind" in the negative. I know it's supposed to connote a lack of racism, but taken on its face, it means that the victim of color-blindness is missing out on something. Whenever I hear it I replace it with "I'm unable to discern differences in people so I'm forced to assume everyone is like me."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12158536.post-38276501263406122912007-08-16T09:10:00.000-04:002007-08-16T09:10:00.000-04:00Great post David, there's a lot of food for though...Great post David, there's a lot of food for thought there and will certainly add a new element to my reading of 'Acacia' (next on the list!)Graeme Floryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15411505049326440010noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12158536.post-12746549337127370982007-08-16T09:08:00.000-04:002007-08-16T09:08:00.000-04:00"Paul, I think you've assumed a lot of things that..."Paul, I think you've assumed a lot of things that I've never said. For one, nothing I said sought to elevate one group's importance above others. When did I say that?"<BR/><BR/>David,<BR/><BR/>Fair enough. I was moving to a larger issue that you did not directly raise or implicate. Apologies for assuming too much of your views.<BR/><BR/>PaulPaul S. Kemphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02882252627404394866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12158536.post-91704474752156713542007-08-16T02:14:00.000-04:002007-08-16T02:14:00.000-04:00Hey Kevin,Thanks for that response. This is just t...Hey Kevin,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for that response. This is just the briefest of notes to say I've received it, but I'm going to drop right now. I'll be out tomorrow being miserable at the "New Faculty" stuff. (I'm not a fan of such things.) But I'll get back to you when I can.<BR/><BR/>Best,<BR/><BR/>David.David Anthony Durhamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13885922955551669016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12158536.post-16186925126417625952007-08-16T01:12:00.000-04:002007-08-16T01:12:00.000-04:00David,I've read every one of Jordan's books in the...David,<BR/>I've read every one of Jordan's books in the "Wheel of Time" series and have a Hobb book, yet unread, on my shelf so the Amazon suggestion folks hit the nail on the head.<BR/> <BR/>I would like you to clarify one thing, if you would. I can’t quite figure out your statement “That's the opposite of being free from segregation” when you’re discussing Amazon’s methods of presenting other books the buyer may be interested in. I would really appreciate understanding what you mean and where you’re coming from with that statement.<BR/><BR/>I’m sure you’ve already thought about this but I’ll offer my opinion up anyway concerning the limited distribution of “Gabriel’s Story” and “Walk Through Darkness”. You set your first two books in and around the darkest part of American history. Before we invaded Iraq, most Americans could look at themselves in the mirror and say “Sure we have flaws but when push comes to shove we usually do the right thing”. During the time of “Gabriel’s Story” and “Walk Through Darkness” we have to look at ourselves and see all of pain that was inflicted upon our fellow Americans and know that we’re really not as righteous as we would have ourselves and others believe. You’re asking a lot of your readers when you push them into looking inward.<BR/><BR/>No, I have not read one of your books yet. I just ‘discovered’ you via Pat’s Fantasy Hotlist and other fantasy review sites that have given “Acacia” high marks. “Acacia” was already sitting at the top of my books to buy list before reading your blog; not because I’m trying to show you how open minded I am but because I read the excerpt from chapter one and it rocks.<BR/> <BR/>I respect the opinions that you’ve presented today and feel that I’ve been enriched by the exchange. I hope that you gain as much from all the people that have replied to your posting, whether they agree with your point of view or not.<BR/><BR/>All the best!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12158536.post-31621627471879081022007-08-15T22:18:00.000-04:002007-08-15T22:18:00.000-04:00Hi, I'm back from a day of signing forms and liste...Hi, I'm back from a day of signing forms and listening to lectures and being shuffled from place to place, all the while wearing a name tag and making small talk with strangers. I'm tired, and I have to do it all again tomorrow. Oh well, I'll first take a few moments and respond to some of these generous posts…<BR/><BR/>Ron, Thanks for you comments. I really do think acknowledging that you'll never understand this race stuff completely is wisdom itself. In return, I offer that I don't have the whole thing worked out myself. Never will. I'll hold things inside my skin and see others in ways that may not always be accurate either. I do think, though, that acknowledging that and then still trying be open to new ideas is the best we can do. Thanks for doing it.<BR/><BR/>Jebus, awesome response. I believe you can feel guilt-free about figuring 99% of folks you've read have been white so long as you acknowledge it and question it a bit. Hopefully, doing that will push you to seek out different voices, just as you welcome them in films. Excellent. All too often, though, I find people respond defensively (and then aggressively) when they find themselves being questioned. I love it that instead you’re turning a few of those questions inward. Again, that's wisdom.<BR/><BR/>Constance, I hear you. I am going to start recommending books more. There's plenty of good stuff out there, and my blog should be about more than just self-endorsement. When I do recommend books by people of color they won't always be sci-fi or fantasy. (Probably because I'm a picky reader and there's not exactly a ton of diverse voices in those genres. We'll work on that.) That points to another balance that I'd like to maintain - that I was a "literary" writer and continue to be an academic. I just increasingly include good genre writing in what I define as literature. But that's a different topic.<BR/><BR/>Hey, I also love it that you can say, "I have my favorite black poets..." and then go on to name them. That's awesome. To me that means you've read and know them as poets, while also acknowledging that their blackness is part of what enriches their writing - part of what you remember.<BR/><BR/>Note to folks - those posts that were deleted were deleted by the people that wrote them, probably as they decided to edit what they'd written. I haven't deleted anything in these comments.<BR/><BR/>Paul, I think you've assumed a lot of things that I've never said. For one, nothing I said sought to elevate one group's importance above others. When did I say that? What I did do was talk about an area that I work in and a situation that directly influences my life. So, "Why prefer the category "African American Authors" to others as a focus for our attention?" Only because this is my blog and I'm an African American and I was writing from my perspective. It seems to me that quite a few people are interested in talking about this. That's all. This is one blog. One writer talking to interested people. I should be able to get away with one post that includes a mention of the African American section without being faulted for not talking about Orthodox Jews, avowed Atheists, Pagans, Native Americans, economically underprivileged white women, Asians, and Albanians. I'm not dismissing them by taking a moment to talk about myself and the group I'm part of. (One of the groups, at least.)<BR/><BR/>Tia, You're kind. Thank you. I'll look forward to your post - I always check in on your sight anyway.<BR/><BR/>Greg, sincerity AND tact?... Thanks. That's what I'm after. It's genuine, I promise.<BR/><BR/>SCW, glad to have you here. I'd note, though, that I've been in Borders where Morrison, Walker, etc were still in the AFAM section - not in general literature. I think that might vary a bit from store to store or region to region. Zadie Smith, on the other hand, is British and read predominantly by white readers. That's what assures she'll be in the center of the store. (She also takes a fine author photograph.)<BR/><BR/>Lloyd, Glad it makes sense to you and speaks to some things you were already uneasy with. It can be hard to sometimes put these things into words. I found the process of trying to ruminate on this in writing helped clarify some things for me as well.<BR/><BR/>Sqt, Hey. I think the fact that you read genre-based is quite relevant to all this, and potentially makes a variation of "color blind" reading pretty reasonable. Since I've switched to novels that enter popular genres and deal with subjects removed from African-American issues my readership has grown. My first two novels were critical successes. (You can check the reviews if you're interested.) They won awards and had full-paged raves in the NYT and Washington Post and San Francisco Chronicle and on NPR, etc. They were NY Times Notable books. BUT they were identifiably about black American issues - and their sales reflected that. Overseas, I only got one foreign sale for these - the Portuguese version of WALK THROUGH DARKNESS.<BR/><BR/>Enter PRIDE OF CARTHAGE. Once I offered that I was writing about world, ancient and Mediterranean history the level of interest changed. For example, my British publisher acquired the book before I'd written a word of it. Why? The topic, sure, but moreover they bought it because they'd read my earlier books and knew I was a good writer. They put down an advance equal to a modest yearly salary before I'd written one word of it - based only on a proposal. That's lovely flattering, sure. The unfortunate side of it is that the books that made them so sure they wanted PRIDE were books that they wouldn't publish because they didn't have the faith that their predominantly white audience would buy them. They couldn't use the "black" novels, even though they knew they were good. (John, I'd ask you to consider that when pondering whether these things are issues in the UK.)<BR/><BR/>So, coming back, I love it that the fact that I wrote in the ancient world and now in a fantasy world brought writers to my work that wouldn't have known I existed before. If, if... any of my newfound readers picked up GABRIEL'S STORY or WALK THROUGH DARKNESS they'd find the same writer of PRIDE OF CARTHAGE and ACACIA. They'd just find me telling a different story. I hope that some of them do, because I am just as proud of those books as I am of later works. AND there will come a time when I'll again mine African-American history for future novels. I hope that when I do some of my new readers come with me. Will you? The publishing world would say No. But I'm still hoping...<BR/><BR/>Also, Sqt, thanks for acknowledging that LA Banks actually did feel different - was different - because the material was informed by race. You may have picked it up color blind, but you saw and felt the color once you did. To me that proves that it does matter, and hopefully can matter in good ways.<BR/><BR/>Sarah, I haven't seen that Colbert bit. I've enjoyed him before, but we don't - by choice - have tv reception. We're a dvd family. If the piece is easily viewed via the web, though, let me know. I'll check it out.<BR/><BR/>Randy, great that those authors have a place in your life.<BR/><BR/>Paranoyd, I couldn't ask for better than respectful disagreement. Nothing wrong with that. I think it can lead to respectful - and more enlightened - agreement. Let's work on it.<BR/><BR/>Kevin, welcome. I wish I could have an influence on shelving policy in chain stores! I don't. And I assure you that writers have complained about it for some time. I suppose I could start a campaign to see things changed, but I'd rather use that time to write more books. Such a campaign could be a nice effort, but it would only change things if the stores perceived it would be profitable to do so. And consider here that profit is a complicated thing. I do believe that literary titles shelved in the AFAM section do suffer in terms of exposure and sales. That doesn't mean that the STORES loose sales, though - not when they can use prominent placements for JK Rowling, Stephen King, Anne Coulter and Dan Brown, etc…<BR/><BR/>As to your Amazon.com/George Martin point... I don't see that any of the examples you make undermine what I said. I didn't say that Amazon handpicks each title specifically. I said they likely work with a certain amount of categorization, especially of popular titles. By that logic and arithmetic it makes much more sense to point Martin readers toward Jordan, Rowling and Robin Hobb. Amazon doesn't have any stake in selling another Martin book. They just have a stake in selling as many other books as possible – regardless of who wrote them. You yourself said you haven't read FEVRE DREAM. Might I ask if you've read Hobb or Jordan? If so you're like many others, and it's quite reasonable that Amazon would want to turn readers on to other successful authors and to series that could lead toward multiple sales - instead of pushing a book by the same author that hasn't proven to have the same sales record.<BR/><BR/>But, I don't want to go too far with this line of debate. I don't claim any insider knowledge on how Amazon arranges things. All I do claim is enough experience to know that no company as successful as Amazon would neglect to use their resources to increase their profits (not necessarily an individual author's profits). Consider this hypothetical...<BR/><BR/>Author A has a popular book. People that bought 2,000 copies of A's book also bought 1,000 copies of B's book. B's book sold a total of 15,000.<BR/><BR/>People that bought A's book also bought 750 copies of C's book. C is a very popular author, though. The book they shared in common sold 50,000 and is the first in a series that has sales of 150,000.<BR/><BR/>Which book would an automated bookseller choose to highlight? Why direct people to a book that didn't sell that well if you can use that space to direct readers to a more popular book that opens them to a new series? It's pretty smart. I think the folks at Amazon are pretty smart. It wouldn't make sense for them not to include such considerations in their organization mechanisms.<BR/><BR/>But, Kevin, I welcome having a dialog with you, and I respect that experiences that you've had here and abroad. It's great that they've informed your worldview - even if some of the realizations weren't always positive.<BR/><BR/>As for hoping that I know ignorant people shouldn't be the ones that define how I see my career I couldn't agree more! And I don't. I also don't choose to entirely ignore the complete reality, but I'm very happy that many people (there could always be more) here in the States are reading my books. I'm happy that people read them in German, Italian, Polish, Portuguese, Russian, Spanish, Swedish, and in throughout the British Commonwealth, too. (More to come.) There are a great many good people in the world. I'm glad I'm reaching them - and talks like this are also about finding ways to hold out hands to others.<BR/><BR/>By the way, Kevin, have you read any of my books? They're good, and they're written for YOU as much as for anybody else.David Anthony Durhamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13885922955551669016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12158536.post-15508602679065106142007-08-15T19:10:00.000-04:002007-08-15T19:10:00.000-04:00I have never worked in a book store so I can't say...I have never worked in a book store so I can't say this for sure but I think the intent of the African American section is to lift up authors of color, not separate them away from other writers. Someone mentioned that a lot of people go into bookstores with no idea of what they want to read or buy; it’s like trying to find a needle in a haystack. The sections in a book stores are there to make those haystacks smaller and thus easier to find that needle (great book). <BR/>If you feel that having this type of section really does hurt the sales of the authors whose books are presented there then you should do something about it. I’m sure that you and any other author that feels the same way could start a dialogue with the different retailers to find out their reasoning for creating this section and let them know your feelings about it.<BR/><BR/>I would also respectfully disagree with you about knowing the race of the author. Since most books are sold in the paperback form and paperbacks usually don’t have a picture of the author most people aren’t going to know the race of the author. I just don’t see someone picking up a paperback from the “Wheel of Time” series, reading the blurbs, getting interested in the plot and then seeing the name Robert Jordan thinking “Jordan, huh. The only Jordan I’ve heard of is Michael Jordan so Robert Jordan is probably black too. No thanks, I’ll find something else”.<BR/><BR/>I would also respectfully disagree with you on the point of Amazon.com and other online book sellers manipulating the results in the ‘Customers who bought this item also bought’ section. I can see the point you’re trying to make but just try out your theory on Amazon.com with George R.R. Martin. Mr. Martin has published fiction, science fiction as well as his fantasy works. The previously mentioned section on Amazon for “A Feast for Crows” shows the works of Robert Jordan, Robin Hobb and the latest Harry Potter. Don’t you think that Amazon would manipulate the results of this field, if they did such things, to show Mr. Martin’s other works since his fans still have a long wait ahead of them for the next installment of his fantasy series? “Fevre Dream” is a vampire story set in 1857 and would probably be an easy sell for a Martin fan in need of a fix.<BR/><BR/>The last point I’ll make from my soap box is this, even though some fans may tell you that they’ve read your books from the different genres you’ve written in don’t count on that being a large number. GRRM is my favorite author in any genre and I haven’t read “Fevre Dream” or any of his non-ASOIAF books. I’d wager that less than twenty percent of his hard core fans have either from the GRRM message boards that I frequent.<BR/><BR/>I know that I can never walk in your shows but I have had some similar experiences. I’ve lived in another country where I was allowed in certain restaurants, clubs or social events because of my skin color. I’ve had relationships and not had relationships with people in this country for the same reason. It’s not fun but I can’t let that be the only lens that I see my experience there through. I know that there are still ignorant people out there but I hope that you realize that they shouldn’t be the lens that you see your career through.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12158536.post-5037287098435112582007-08-15T18:47:00.000-04:002007-08-15T18:47:00.000-04:00While I respectfully disagree with parts of your i...While I respectfully disagree with parts of your interview with Scalzi (namely, the white writers part), I agree with you on this post. I do think it is a shame that non-white authors get a host of grief when it comes to selling and positioning their creative works.<BR/><BR/>I am never sure about the race, and a few cases the gender, of the authors I read, unless I become somehow enamored of them, i.e. read more than one book or met them and they were very cool. I read Delaney without knowing he was black. I only found out recently, and it wasn't so much a shock as, "That's pretty cool that he was able to be successful in this field." <BR/><BR/>I don't think I'm colorblind - I feel color, but more importantly culture - is what enriches our lives, and describes us to each other. I love having black and Hispanic friends, and gay friends, etc, because I learn something new every time I talk to them. Without color, this would be a dull, gray sphere.<BR/><BR/>That said, I really think that there should be no color-specific author section of any bookstore. A black studies section, certainly, just like a woman's studies, or gay studies, but not a gay author, etc. I don't feel race is any determination of the ability to tell a story, so it should be no determination on where to place the story. It almost feels as if they are saying "Here's black writers. For the REAL writers, go over to the xyz section." and I think that's awful.Corby Kennardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06891081576090200925noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12158536.post-22732127147552205122007-08-15T17:34:00.000-04:002007-08-15T17:34:00.000-04:00I'm white and I work at trying to be colorblind. B...I'm white and I work at trying to be colorblind. But I'm not perfect and I catch myself thinking thoughts I ought to be shamed of. I'll stop and think, "That was stupid!" I've owned and read Delaney, Butler, Barnes, Moseley, and Ellison for as long as they've been publishing and I've been able to buy my own books. But as I said, I.m not perfect and probably never will be. I can never know what it's like to be a "person of color", except for what I read. And I acknowledge that's not the same thing.Randy Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16627907086811387527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12158536.post-33445575761957541152007-08-15T16:33:00.000-04:002007-08-15T16:33:00.000-04:00Hi! Surfed over here via the Angry Black Woman-- ...Hi! Surfed over here via the <A HREF="http://theangryblackwoman.wordpress.com/" REL="nofollow">Angry Black Woman</A>-- great post. I'm a female sci-fi/fantasy fan who's long been frustrated with the whiteness of the genre, so I'm definitely planning to check out your books!<BR/><BR/>What do you think of the way Stephen Colbert gives the 'I don't see color' line the <I>reductio ad absurbum</I> treament?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12158536.post-969804765980382892007-08-15T12:41:00.000-04:002007-08-15T12:41:00.000-04:00Hi, I'm here via Pat's Fantasy Hotlist.Great post....Hi, I'm here via Pat's Fantasy Hotlist.<BR/><BR/>Great post. This is very interesting to me because I tend to read by genre and the author's race or gender doesn't necessarily factor in but it can make a big difference nonetheless. <BR/><BR/>For example: I picked up a L.A. Banks book because she was in the fantasy/sci-fi section though she is also a well known black author. And I have to say, I really did notice a difference in tone to the book because of her racial perspective. That was interesting to me because I had never thought about reading/writing in that context. <BR/><BR/>I'm used to the male/female divide, especially with the "chick lit" phenomenon but I am now starting to realize what a difference race makes. I was just contacted today by a Caribbean author to review his books on my site and I have to say I'm pretty interested to see how his background influences the story. <BR/><BR/>And you're absolutely right that Amazon promotes books in pretty tight genre packages. I don't read sci-fi/fantasy exclusively and I would love to have Amazon tell me when my favorite authors write books in other genres, but they never do.SQThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04251030404220909306noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12158536.post-50880152723559236732007-08-15T11:54:00.000-04:002007-08-15T11:54:00.000-04:00I've always known something wasn't completely kosh...I've always known something wasn't completely kosher about the whole "colorblind" thing, and you just put into words the frustration I've been feeling whenever I hear people rhapsodize about and appropriate MLK, by pushing colorblindednessAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12158536.post-31740127252780911252007-08-15T11:36:00.000-04:002007-08-15T11:36:00.000-04:00Excellent points.I once thought having an African ...Excellent points.<BR/><BR/>I once thought having an African American section in the bookstore was a good idea, but I've changed my mind now that I see what's offered there, which is an abundance of street lit. Not that there's anything wrong with that genre, but it seems as if the bookstore is sending a message that type of book is the only one we'll read.<BR/><BR/>Then I have to mosey on over to the literature section to get authors like Toni Morrison, Zadie Smith, Alice Walker, etc. It's frustrating.Strength/Courage/Wisdomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16110299281724084609noreply@blogger.com